Everything is a damn subscription nowadays

[desertdweller]

So this is a first. I almost never use Waves, and about a year or two ago I bought a few Waves plugins for my PC. Honestly, most of their UIs haven't been updated since 2005 and many of their packages, like the CLA vocals plugin, are just OK compared to running other better standalone compressors, limiters, reverbs, and EQs.

This email today makes me never want to use them again. So I bought a Pultec style EQ plugin from them, and now they want me to renew my license for it if I want to ever install it again or have them provide tech support. It's a VST, it doesn't need tech support, so this just seems petty IMO. Probably the last Waves purchase I'll make because of it. So not only do they have aging software, now they want to double charge for it.

[osiris]

Few things tick me off like not actually owning anything anymore. Even things you think you own (like Sonos speakers, Unifi access points etc.) are completely dependent on the benevolence of the eco system owner to keep working.

[Lozek]

Yeah, Waves have got a lot of heat for doing this when it first came in but I'm not sure they care. Props on the Pultec though, I presume you're doing the boost/cut trick on guitars to beef them up?

[Iron1]

This very thing is why I won't buy Hewlett Packard stuff. Have had two perfectly functional HP machines bricked because they wouldn't update software to suit OS updates. Both machines were less than 5 years old when it happened.

[Chris]

I believe Bass Rider falls under this too, which is ridiculous.

[Überschall]

All Waves plugins fall into this category. Once you buy them, you are free to install a single copy on your machine and use it for as long as you want, the WUP doesn't mean you can't use the product you purchased. You can also install it on a second machine for a year, and get updates for a year. If you want to install it on a second machine or get updates after the first year, you need to keep your update plan current.

[thrashinbatman]

capitalism in action. it isnt enough to just sell plugins anymore, now we have to gate off easy access and updates behind more payments so we can make more money. their plugins arent even that good tbh. just buy it and ride that version out until it doesnt work anymore. their update plan nonsense isnt even a good value like the PA or Slate subscriptions. it's purely extortion, just like Pro Tools' subscription.

[Chris]

capitalism in action. it isnt enough to just sell plugins anymore, now we have to gate off easy access and updates behind more payments so we can make more money. their plugins arent even that good tbh. just buy it and ride that version out until it doesnt work anymore. their update plan nonsense isnt even a good value like the PA or Slate subscriptions. it's purely extortion, just like Pro Tools' subscription.

Right? Edit a comment and tick that version number to .02 and sucker people into a subscription fee. This is why I bought Reaper. Updates galore, none of the bullshit.

As for waves?

[thrashinbatman]

the only upside is that they typically sell them for so cheap that by the time you have to think about buying a new version, you'll probably have gotten your money's worth. only fools buy Waves stuff for any more than $20 or $30. i love L1, C4, and that new SSL strip, but i have zero interest in anything else.

[Mike]

the only upside is that they typically sell them for so cheap that by the time you have to think about buying a new version, you'll probably have gotten your money's worth. only fools buy Waves stuff for any more than $20 or $30. i love L1, C4, and that new SSL strip, but i have zero interest in anything else.

I like the new SSL strip, but not better than the actual SSL strip, which I paid $50 for. I used Waves for years, but pretty much everyone's emulation of the classics sound better than theirs do, so I'm weaning myself off rather than coughing for the subscriptions.

[Lozek]

the only upside is that they typically sell them for so cheap that by the time you have to think about buying a new version, you'll probably have gotten your money's worth. only fools buy Waves stuff for any more than $20 or $30. i love L1, C4, and that new SSL strip, but i have zero interest in anything else.

Exactly, never pay full price.

I've got everything I need from Waves on one machine and I don't care about updates, L1, Bass-Rider, Maxx-Bass, De-esser, H-Verb (for the glory of the non-lin on snares) and Pultec for beefing guitars. I've stopped using C4 because you can achieve the same thing in the native Cubase Frequency using their reactive EQ, and it's a damn good EQ to boot.

[Chris]

Exactly, never pay full price.

I've got everything I need from Waves on one machine and I don't care about updates, L1, Bass-Rider, Maxx-Bass, De-esser, H-Verb (for the glory of the non-lin on snares) and Pultec for beefing guitars. I've stopped using C4 because you can achieve the same thing in the native Cubase Frequency using their reactive EQ, and it's a damn good EQ to boot.

Better than EQuality?

https://www.dmgaudio.com/products_equality.php

I absolutely love this one.

[Lozek]

I've not tried it, the main feature sets are definitely on a par.

The thing that Frequency can do is each band can be independently set with a threshold, so 'If 120hz exceeds 3db, then reduce by X amount with a Q width of Y and then release it within Z milliseconds'. It means you can target a specific resonance time specifically instead of altering the overall EQ picture.

Extremely useful for dynamic things like Kick Drums and controlling their relationship to the bass guitar or you can do the Sneap guitar resonance settings. In general, you can pin the low end of your mix in place and stop the elements fighting.

[Drew]

the only upside is that they typically sell them for so cheap that by the time you have to think about buying a new version, you'll probably have gotten your money's worth. only fools buy Waves stuff for any more than $20 or $30. i love L1, C4, and that new SSL strip, but i have zero interest in anything else.

Yeah, I only really use a handful of their plugins, and if I ever need to update one of those, I don't really mind paying $30 every five or six years to, say, download the newest version onto a new computer.

Still beats the Slate model, IMO.

[desertdweller]

All Waves plugins fall into this category. Once you buy them, you are free to install a single copy on your machine and use it for as long as you want, the WUP doesn't mean you can't use the product you purchased. You can also install it on a second machine for a year, and get updates for a year. If you want to install it on a second machine or get updates after the first year, you need to keep your update plan current.

Fabfilter Pro Q is the best there is IMO. I love making EQ dynamic and splitting it off mid/side when appropriate. Plus it gives you suggestions based on where your peaks are, and if you have it on multiple busses in the same song, it links them and tells you where you may be muddying up your mixes.

https://www.fabfilter.com/products/p...alizer-plug-in

f'n awesome stuff these guys make. Their compressor and limiter programs are some of the best out there as well.

Edit - I think I quoted the wrong person here, I was trying to reply to Chris

[RevDrucifer]

I just don’t update my Macs and don’t have any issues.

I recently had to go through all the subscription services I had in place after realizing they were totaling up to almost $200 a month for a bunch of shit I never use. The only two I’m keeping are Plug-in Alliance and East West’s Play. I have a shitload of Waves plug-ins, haven’t updated a single one since I’ve had ‘em.

[desertdweller]

I just don’t update my Macs and don’t have any issues.

I recently had to go through all the subscription services I had in place after realizing they were totaling up to almost $200 a month for a bunch of shit I never use. The only two I’m keeping are Plug-in Alliance and East West’s Play. I have a shitload of Waves plug-ins, haven’t updated a single one since I’ve had ‘em.

Yeah I refuse to use plugin subscriptions. I have a bunch of great stuff from Kazrog, FabFilter, Submission Audio, etc., and they're all so good I don't need the ones that have a subscription. At least for now.

[thrashinbatman]

my Waves plugins are a version or two out of date and i wont update until they physically dont work anymore. i do pay for Slate but honestly i find myself using those plugins less and less. thinking of paying outright for those i use and tossing it. the PA one is alright, at the very least it gives you the ability to buy your favorites real cheap as it goes along. thats how they should all be.

[Iron1]

I've not tried it, the main feature sets are definitely on a par.

The thing that Frequency can do is each band can be independently set with a threshold, so 'If 120hz exceeds 3db, then reduce by X amount with a Q width of Y and then release it within Z milliseconds'. It means you can target a specific resonance time specifically instead of altering the overall EQ picture.

Extremely useful for dynamic things like Kick Drums and controlling their relationship to the bass guitar or you can do the Sneap guitar resonance settings. In general, you can pin the low end of your mix in place and stop the elements fighting.

Well, that just sounds awesome. Might need to get one of those...

[jacksonplayer]

I think the only thing I've bought from Waves is a Yamaha CP-80 emulation. Otherwise, a lot of what they offer are things I already have for free or just don't need.

I don't mind subscription services if they're done right, but Waves hasn't impressed me with their post-sale installation procedures etc.

[mpexus]

Welcome to the time were we pay like if we own it but we dont own shit...

This crap infested the 3D and Imaging market 15 years ago. Before you would buy a version of Photoshop or Maya or 3DSMax and would only update if the updates were really improvements. Now they force you to update even if you never use that version. The type of productions I work are version locked. Meaning we get a software version and stick to it until the end of that production that can last 1.5 years, also meaning the company paid for Licenses of new versions they will never use.

It a way for companies to have Cash flow annually and have nothing that is really an improvement on them. That's why I stopped buying licenses, Refuse to adhere to that system and has they say in Jurassic Park:

- "Life" always finds a way

[jacksonplayer]

Welcome to the time were we pay like if we own it but we dont own shit...

This crap infested the 3D and Imaging market 15 years ago. Before you would buy a version of Photoshop or Maya or 3DSMax and would only update if the updates were really improvements. Now they force you to update even if you never use that version. The type of productions I work are version locked. Meaning we get a software version and stick to it until the end of that production that can last 1.5 years, also meaning the company paid for Licenses of new versions they will never use.

It a way for companies to have Cash flow annually and have nothing that is really an improvement on them. That's why I stopped buying licenses, Refuse to adhere to that system and has they say in Jurassic Park:

- "Life" always finds a way

Adobe's the fucking worst, but then they've always been the worst. Overly complex, non-intuitive, and sluggish as hell. Their subscription is outrageously expensive.

[Chris]

Adobe's the fucking worst, but then they've always been the worst. Overly complex, non-intuitive, and sluggish as hell. Their subscription is outrageously expensive.

Their new model completely turned me off from every product they make. It's awful.

[mpexus]

Adobe's the fucking worst, but then they've always been the worst. Overly complex, non-intuitive, and sluggish as hell. Their subscription is outrageously expensive.

Thats why I still use a now Ancient Photoshop version

[Chris]

Thats why I still use a now Ancient Photoshop version