What happened to Jackson?

[desertdweller]

[desertdweller]

A $1400 soloist made in China? What am I looking at here, why would anyone buy this?

[Darren]

FMIC has stuff made all over the world. USA, Mexico, Japan, Indonesia, China.

[Dominic]

Not just them, either. I saw a six-string Warwick Steve Bailey bass a few years back that was MIC and still had a price tag of €6k.

[Zero]

Made in China is no longer the indictment it once was -- manufacturing capabilities have progressed leaps and bounds in China over the last 10-15 years, and ultimately buyers can get whatever level of quality they're willing to pay for. There are still some things you don't want to buy from China (GMP Medical equipment, specifically), but many things are great.


Remember, there was a time where "Made in Japan" was the line you didn't want to see on anything.

[Drew]

IMO, a $1300 mirror finish Soloist is more likely to make me question sanity over at Jackson than a $1300 "crafted in China" Soloist.

[Shawn]

I see a lot of made in China on other brands lately too.

[Chris]

Made in China is no longer the indictment it once was.

Call me old fashioned but there's no fucking way I'd pay a grand or more for a MIC guitar.

I'm the same way with American cars. I think they're all shitboxes and there's no way in hell I'd ever own one.

[desertdweller]

Call me old fashioned but there's no fucking way I'd pay a grand or more for a MIC guitar.

I'm the same way with American cars. I think they're all shitboxes and there's no way in hell I'd ever own one.

Same, on both accounts.

[jacksonplayer]

I'm not sure Chinese manufacture is any less reliable than Indonesian manufacture.

The real problem will be FMIC's cost-cutting and shitty oversight/QA of its contract builders.

[Mike]

I'm not sure Chinese manufacture is any less reliable than Indonesian manufacture.

The real problem will be FMIC's cost-cutting and shitty oversight/QA of its contract builders.

Yeah, that's true. Reports are that the MIC crackles are actually better than the Indo guitars, at least so far.

[Dominic]

Not just them, either. I saw a six-string Warwick Steve Bailey bass a few years back that was MIC and still had a price tag of €6k.

If I'm about to drop 6k on a bass, I'll go to see someone like Marleaux, LeFay, or Ritter in person. No middlemen, unless they won't sell direct, which I understand, and I don't mind the MI retailer taking the cut.

[Chris]

If I'm about to drop 6k on a bass, I'll go to see someone like Marleaux, LeFay, or Ritter in person. No middlemen, unless they won't sell direct, which I understand, and I don't mind the MI retailer taking the cut.

Put the bong down, you replied to the wrong thread again man.

[JJ Rodriguez]

Well to be fair he was referring back to his own post

Not just them, either. I saw a six-string Warwick Steve Bailey bass a few years back that was MIC and still had a price tag of €6k.

[Chris]

Well to be fair he was referring back to his own post

Well shit, no bong here so I guess I'm just old.

[Dominic]

Put the bong down, you replied to the wrong thread again man.

Nah, man, the way I saw it, the argument here had moved on to saying that the quality of MIC instruments is now really great (which I can agree with), but I was standing by what I'd already said, which is that a comparatively local luthier would make me a far superior instrument for that sort of money (I happen to live in the same country as the world-class dudes whose firms I listed, but there are killer makers almost everywhere these days).

It's purely academic anyway, my basses are way beyond my ability on that instrument and I'm unlikely to upgrade. (Especially the fretless! That was just a bargain I couldn't say no to and an opportunity to have slidey fun.)

[JJ Rodriguez]

Yeah, no way I'm paying that much for a MIC guitar when for a little bit more you can get something MIK or elsewhere with a better reputation, and someone is smoking meth if they think $6k (or sXXXXglies) is in any way reasonable for a MIC bass.

[Dominic]

Well shit, no bong here so I guess I'm just old.

Me too, man, it sucks.

[Mattayus]

Seems that the country of manufacture game is moving tiers around. Indonesia seems to be the new Korea, Korea the new Japan, and China the new... I dunno... Indo I'm guessing? Japanese guitars are obnoxiously expensive now, and on par with USA Gib/Fenders for price (and also QC unfortunately - just take a look at any of the reviews for the Ibanez Genesis stuff, terrible fretwork). Most Indonesian-made guitars are £1k now. Indo stuff used to be where all your "just above entry level" shit lived, but now it's all Ibanez Premiums and PRS SE's, all upper-mid-range stuff. China is just anybody's guess. Some cheap crap is still being made there, but then so is some higher level and custom shop models. Very odd set up at the moment.

[Budda]

Soon we'll have to base it on the spec level but not country of origin I guess?

[Mattayus]

Soon we'll have to base it on the spec level but not country of origin I guess?

Well I think that's already what they're edging towards. It's just gonna take a generation or two to shake the whole "eww, made in China?" stigma that's so prevalent thanks to a few decades of Chinese stuff being largely awful. It's been used as the West's industrial producer for so long thanks to cheap labour. But it's come a long way, and most of it is down to automation. It's no longer down to skill level or quality of life, you can negate that shit by having guys sit at machines. Country of origin now merely dictates how much of a profit margin the manufacturer will get.

[JJ Rodriguez]

Spec isn't everything though. On paper, a set neck guitar with stainless frets, an ebony board and decent hardware sounds good, but if the fret work is so bad it slices your hand, tooling marks all over the place, improperly dried wood that warps in shipping, and just over all shit construction, then the on paper specs don't matter.

The only way those guitars make sense is if you're getting it for the cost of the hardware/pickups if they're brand name and you can use that guitar as a donor guitar, and I doubt you can get $1400 worth of shit off the guitar in the OP.

As good as any warranty is, you have to ship the guitar back to your dealer if you didn't buy locally and wait potentially several months, all the while they have your money, and maybe even more if the warranty doesn't specify return shipping, which is a possibility here in North America since we don't have the same protections EU people do.

Too much of a roll of the dice for most people.

[desertdweller]

Spec isn't everything though. On paper, a set neck guitar with stainless frets, an ebony board and decent hardware sounds good, but if the fret work is so bad it slices your hand, tooling marks all over the place, improperly dried wood that warps in shipping, and just over all shit construction, then the on paper specs don't matter.

The only way those guitars make sense is if you're getting it for the cost of the hardware/pickups if they're brand name and you can use that guitar as a donor guitar, and I doubt you can get $1400 worth of shit off the guitar in the OP.

As good as any warranty is, you have to ship the guitar back to your dealer if you didn't buy locally and wait potentially several months, all the while they have your money, and maybe even more if the warranty doesn't specify return shipping, which is a possibility here in North America since we don't have the same protections EU people do.

Too much of a roll of the dice for most people.

It's getting to the point that I won't buy a used guitar anymore, and if I buy a guitar online, it's either from a retailer I know sets up the guitar well and does a quality check. Sweetwater is usually great for this, however I received a guitar from them a few years ago had some glaring quality defects, so no retailer is perfect. I agree, it's more the QC process now than anything b/c all of these guitars are made in the same shops in these countries. Basically, I need to have a good return/refund policy if I buy a guitar online.

Or I'll just continue to buy from Jeff in Chicago since the last guitar and amp I got from his shop were incredible.

[jacksonplayer]

Some cheap crap is still being made there, but then so is some higher level and custom shop models. Very odd set up at the moment.

Eastman has hand-built guitars made in China that are truly excellent. However, that's a craft operation very different than the industrial setup that most of the contract builders use.

Obviously, no nationality has an exclusive on good luthiery. It's more down to how much effort is being put into teaching the skill set and ensuring that the finished product is high-quality.

[noodles]

Made in China is no longer the indictment it once was -- manufacturing capabilities have progressed leaps and bounds in China over the last 10-15 years, and ultimately buyers can get whatever level of quality they're willing to pay for. There are still some things you don't want to buy from China (GMP Medical equipment, specifically), but many things are great.


Remember, there was a time where "Made in Japan" was the line you didn't want to see on anything.

People didn't want to buy stuff made in Japan because WWII was a recent memory. People don't want to buy guitars made in China because they're purposefully made like shit, so as to not compete with higher tiers within the same brand.