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    Tone test: which sounds better?

    Been working on dialing in a tone set for my 2020 Jackson H7 and the Fishman Open Cores. The push/pull is supposed to provide a "wide variety of tones" but in high gain it really almost sounds like a crunch/OD knob, to some extent.

    So I got to thinking, maybe recording in push mode panned left and pull mode panned right would make a sweet tone distillery. But, I'm not sure it sounds as good as just running both sides in pull mode.

    What do you think? The first run is push panned left, pull panned right. The second is both pull.



    Edit: I have no idea how to embed Soundcloud link here...
    Last edited by Iron1; 02-28-2021, 11:57 AM.
    Don't expect much, it's not like I'm a Rocket Surgeon...

    #2
    On my crappy pc speakers the 1st one sounds better to me ,a little thicker maybe. Either way, I like both

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Bohmer View Post
      On my crappy pc speakers the 1st one sounds better to me ,a little thicker maybe. Either way, I like both
      Thanks! The more I listen to it, the more it seems the first is warmer and the 2nd is more scooped, maybe - but I'm listening on headphones, not my monitors.
      Don't expect much, it's not like I'm a Rocket Surgeon...

      Comment


        #4
        I couldn't really tell them apart, to be honest

        I notice this on my Fishman Open Cores... going from the Hot voice to the PAF voice on a gainy setting really washes out the differences. It's SUPER clearly different when you're on a lower gain level.

        Originally posted by Iron1 View Post
        Edit: I have no idea how to embed Soundcloud link here...
        Wrap it in [ sc ]. But, I don't think private links work, just public ones.

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          #5
          Not enough difference to really matter.
          Especially once you add drums and bass these differences would be insignificant

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Leon View Post
            I couldn't really tell them apart, to be honest

            I notice this on my Fishman Open Cores... going from the Hot voice to the PAF voice on a gainy setting really washes out the differences. It's SUPER clearly different when you're on a lower gain level.



            Wrap it in [ sc ]. But, I don't think private links work, just public ones.


            Ah, it was the private thing that stopped it before - unless Ultimate Webmaster Chris fixed something... Thx!
            Don't expect much, it's not like I'm a Rocket Surgeon...

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Blazon_Stone View Post
              Not enough difference to really matter.
              Especially once you add drums and bass these differences would be insignificant
              Yeah, kinda thinking the same thing... but maybe the second has more high end to offset the bass when I add that in... (?)
              Don't expect much, it's not like I'm a Rocket Surgeon...

              Comment


                #8
                The second I prefer ever so slightly due out to sounding more open in the highs but as has been said you probably won't notice a difference in a mix

                Comment


                  #9
                  Since I'm bored, I went ahead and re-did it with drums and bass. Definitely reduces the noticeable differences big time, but still think there's a little difference here.

                  Don't expect much, it's not like I'm a Rocket Surgeon...

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Iron1 View Post
                    Since I'm bored, I went ahead and re-did it with drums and bass. Definitely reduces the noticeable differences big time, but still think there's a little difference here.

                    Killer stuff dude! I love simple beats that leave room for some bouncy riffs

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I was trying exactly the same with Voice 1 & 2 on moderns and classics, it really doesn't make enough of a difference. The only reason to do it is to get more width in the stereo picture, but you can achieve much more with amp/cab variance.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I prefer the first. That said, when I listened to the version you made with drums and bass, they sound 100% exactly the same to me. When it's just the guitars, I can hear a difference between them and I think the first one sounds better, but with all the other parts in? Can't tell them apart at all.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Lozek View Post
                          I was trying exactly the same with Voice 1 & 2 on moderns and classics, it really doesn't make enough of a difference. The only reason to do it is to get more width in the stereo picture, but you can achieve much more with amp/cab variance.
                          i think you’re right, thx! BTW, which do you like better, the moderns or the classics?

                          Originally posted by Naren View Post
                          I prefer the first. That said, when I listened to the version you made with drums and bass, they sound 100% exactly the same to me. When it's just the guitars, I can hear a difference between them and I think the first one sounds better, but with all the other parts in? Can't tell them apart at all.
                          Definitely the more I listen with the drums/bass the more it seems like an infinitesimal difference.
                          Don't expect much, it's not like I'm a Rocket Surgeon...

                          Comment


                            #14
                            For the new test with drums

                            If I have to choose

                            I chose the 2nd one , for subtle enough reasons I can't even describe it xD

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I've got the same deal goin' on with the Devin Townsend set. It's just like putting a boost in front of an amp. I think it's just enough of a difference that it doesn't give a mix that mirror-image sound and it's definitely more noticeable depending on the amount of distortion you're using and whether or not you're playing single-note stuff with it. I was fucking around after the new AxeFX update with the MKIV model, you can go from Master Of Puppets to And Justice For All by going from Classic to Modern. It's certainly more detailed with specific amps.

                              I just tracked this last week, it's the "Man In The Box" cover my buds and I did (only the last 1/3 of the song). I might re-track the rhythm guitars because I did this pre-Cygnus update and the update is THAT good that it's worth the 15 minutes it'll take me to re-record them. The left side is Modern, right side is Classic. The bigger difference is in the solo; on the album version it sounds like Jerry switches guitars or at the least, to the neck pickup. I switched from Modern to Classic and went to the neck pick-up in the 2nd half the solo. Same amp, same settings.

                              The Karmic Law is not kismet. It is not fate but cause and effect. It is a taskmaster to the unwise; a servant to the wise.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by RevDrucifer View Post
                                I've got the same deal goin' on with the Devin Townsend set. It's just like putting a boost in front of an amp. I think it's just enough of a difference that it doesn't give a mix that mirror-image sound and it's definitely more noticeable depending on the amount of distortion you're using and whether or not you're playing single-note stuff with it. I was fucking around after the new AxeFX update with the MKIV model, you can go from Master Of Puppets to And Justice For All by going from Classic to Modern. It's certainly more detailed with specific amps.

                                I just tracked this last week, it's the "Man In The Box" cover my buds and I did (only the last 1/3 of the song). I might re-track the rhythm guitars because I did this pre-Cygnus update and the update is THAT good that it's worth the 15 minutes it'll take me to re-record them. The left side is Modern, right side is Classic. The bigger difference is in the solo; on the album version it sounds like Jerry switches guitars or at the least, to the neck pickup. I switched from Modern to Classic and went to the neck pick-up in the 2nd half the solo. Same amp, same settings.

                                Awesome playing. The two tones compliment each other well - and seem a lot like the difference in the Open Cores push/pull tones. One side has a bit more beef, the other a little more high end, to me at least.
                                Don't expect much, it's not like I'm a Rocket Surgeon...

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Iron1 View Post

                                  Awesome playing. The two tones compliment each other well - and seem a lot like the difference in the Open Cores push/pull tones. One side has a bit more beef, the other a little more high end, to me at least.
                                  Pretty much. The more beef actually comes from the Classic setting. There's a certain point on every amp where one touch too much distortion makes the Modern setting sound like complete ass, while the Classic side has tons of room for awesome tones, but I dig them both equally!
                                  The Karmic Law is not kismet. It is not fate but cause and effect. It is a taskmaster to the unwise; a servant to the wise.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    I have a guitar with moderns in them. And I'll say that when it's just the guitar, voice 1 and voice 2 on the bridge sound noticeably different, but that difference quickly disappears in a full band setting. With the neck pickup, though, I think voice 1 and voice 2 sound nothing remotely alike. But I think that's mainly output. With the neck pickup, voice 1 has a very high gain active pickup sound, while voice 2 has a more mid-to-low gain, almost passive pickup-esque sound. If you're playing on a huge sound with tons of gain, even the neck pickups voice 1 and voice 2 won't be as noticeable, though. On clean, it's absurdly clear the difference. My personal impression of the bridge voice 1 and voice 2 difference has mainly just been that voice 2 has a lot more mids, but other than that, it's kind of hard to really specify what the difference is. I do prefer Voice 1 on both the bridge and neck pickups, though.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      without drums, 2, with drums, fucked if i can tell the difference!

                                      bass tone is nice and clanky though, liking that!

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Naren View Post
                                        I have a guitar with moderns in them. And I'll say that when it's just the guitar, voice 1 and voice 2 on the bridge sound noticeably different, but that difference quickly disappears in a full band setting. With the neck pickup, though, I think voice 1 and voice 2 sound nothing remotely alike. But I think that's mainly output. With the neck pickup, voice 1 has a very high gain active pickup sound, while voice 2 has a more mid-to-low gain, almost passive pickup-esque sound. If you're playing on a huge sound with tons of gain, even the neck pickups voice 1 and voice 2 won't be as noticeable, though. On clean, it's absurdly clear the difference. My personal impression of the bridge voice 1 and voice 2 difference has mainly just been that voice 2 has a lot more mids, but other than that, it's kind of hard to really specify what the difference is. I do prefer Voice 1 on both the bridge and neck pickups, though.
                                        Yeah, I haven't messed around with the neck v1/v2 much yet - but will soon. For now, though, I think I dig the V2 for the bridge.

                                        Originally posted by 7 Dying Trees View Post
                                        without drums, 2, with drums, fucked if i can tell the difference!

                                        bass tone is nice and clanky though, liking that!
                                        Agreed - and glad ya like the bass tone - still dialing that one in, too.

                                        Don't expect much, it's not like I'm a Rocket Surgeon...

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Iron1 View Post

                                          i think you’re right, thx! BTW, which do you like better, the moderns or the classics?
                                          I think it more a case of what guitar they work in. I have classics in my Horizon which is Northern white ash, a very big and dark sounding guitar, tends to be in E standard and D and used for slightly more classic/black metal material.

                                          I've got moderns in my MI and Edwards SV, both Alder, tend to be tuned between C & A, slightly faster snappier guitars so the Moderns extra weight works well. Tend to use these for more modern material and Death Metal.

                                          I've just put a Modern into my Charvel which is full maple, can be quite thin sounding, waiting for batteries to see how it sounds.

                                          I thinkIat some point I'm going to get a set of Devin Townsends and cycle them through the guitars to see if it works any better for anything.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by Lozek View Post

                                            I think it more a case of what guitar they work in. I have classics in my Horizon which is Northern white ash, a very big and dark sounding guitar, tends to be in E standard and D and used for slightly more classic/black metal material.

                                            I've got moderns in my MI and Edwards SV, both Alder, tend to be tuned between C & A, slightly faster snappier guitars so the Moderns extra weight works well. Tend to use these for more modern material and Death Metal.

                                            I've just put a Modern into my Charvel which is full maple, can be quite thin sounding, waiting for batteries to see how it sounds.

                                            I thinkIat some point I'm going to get a set of Devin Townsends and cycle them through the guitars to see if it works any better for anything.
                                            Nice, so, you prefer the Fishmans to other actives? or No? (and definitely want to hear more of your DM stuff, BTW.)

                                            Oh, how I hate the battery thing.


                                            Killed the first one I ever put in the H7 the other day while recording the solo guitar track in the OP. It literally worked for one pass, then died before the 2nd one. Took me a minute to figure out what happened since I've been playing passives since the 90s. What's the average hour-life of a quality 9v in these things? I remember seeing some rechargeable unit you could use instead of the battery, but can't remember what/where it was, other than it was pricey.
                                            Don't expect much, it's not like I'm a Rocket Surgeon...

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Naren View Post
                                              I prefer the first. That said, when I listened to the version you made with drums and bass, they sound 100% exactly the same to me. When it's just the guitars, I can hear a difference between them and I think the first one sounds better, but with all the other parts in? Can't tell them apart at all.
                                              Same here.

                                              Great, oldschool thrasy stuff too man.

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by Chris View Post

                                                Great, oldschool thrasy stuff too man.
                                                Thanks! I just sat down and it came out - not sure if I'll use it for anything other than tone testing, though.
                                                Don't expect much, it's not like I'm a Rocket Surgeon...

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by Iron1 View Post

                                                  Nice, so, you prefer the Fishmans to other actives? or No? (and definitely want to hear more of your DM stuff, BTW.)

                                                  Oh, how I hate the battery thing.


                                                  Killed the first one I ever put in the H7 the other day while recording the solo guitar track in the OP. It literally worked for one pass, then died before the 2nd one. Took me a minute to figure out what happened since I've been playing passives since the 90s. What's the average hour-life of a quality 9v in these things? I remember seeing some rechargeable unit you could use instead of the battery, but can't remember what/where it was, other than it was pricey.
                                                  Yeah, I definitely prefer them. When I first got them I did an A/B with an 81 against a Modern, it's basically an 81 with a load of nasty spiky stuff removed and more clarity and weight. I believe the classics may be aimed at the EMG 57 sound, but I've never tried them so I don't know for sure.

                                                  My journey has been EMG in the 90's/00's when everyone was playing shitty clubs where you couldn't hear what was going on, then I jumped aboard the BKP hype train until I got schooled by another band member with an 81. I switched back to EMG but my picking hand gets carried away live so they became scratch-city for me, I briefly tried Duncan Blackouts but they are far too bloated (although I still use a neck single), so when the Fishmans came along they were a revelation.

                                                  Since I've been using them, I've been playing with IEM and getting show recordings from the board, so I've got an idea of how they sound under adrenaline as well as In the studio.

                                                  Battery-wise, yeah they do take more than EMG's but it's still in the months of playing time so it's not exactly an issue. I have heard that they just die abruptly rather than slowly fading out, for me I just make sure I change at the start of every tour and I don't have any worries.

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